The debate "The USA is a flawed democracy" was started by
June 28, 2020, 3:11 am.
20 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 8 people are on the disagree side.
People are starting to choose their side.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
Harmony posted 2 arguments to the agreers part.
Harmony, SUPERPIGGU, Anushaavula, saswati and 16 visitors agree.
vasudeven, britishwolf and 6 visitors disagree.
1. previously you noted the criteria as having "civil liberties" and "political freedoms." at your new points. usa passes laws, has divided government that has kept both parties in check at times, including now. there is no voter suppression beyond short term state attempts that face legal challenges. comparing any country or person to ideals will reveal flawed results.
it is easy to pass laws and be peaceful when you live in a nation that is 93% the same ethnicity, 99% western european, and ~100% general European. 78% even follow the same exact denomination of christianity. and your military might is no switzerland, much less USA. every nation with a strong military has been warlike... the USA is the least violent warmonger in history. its easy to talk about being peaceful when you lack the strength to do anything else. the USA foreign policy is complex and is made of many ideologies simultaneously. that is the power and consequence of size.
2. disagreement is fundamental to democracy. and also to social growth. agreement does not lead to hollywood and silicon valley.
3. all things are flawed. also, let us compare apples to apples. show me a cosmoplolitan nation of 300bil that functions "properly". your comparing the family with 4 brothers and 6 sisters to the old couple next door. and then complaining that they are more chaotic.
4. Brexit was just the prominent example, right wing governments have always been popular in eastern europe, and last election cycle they threatened germany and other nations as well. the yellow vests are demanding Macron's head, while greece (and i think Italy) are getting their economies crushed with the EU preaching more osterity. you guys are attempting to do what America has done for 200 years with your little "EU" project and you are all already ripping each other apart. lmao. european nations are comparable to american states. get your EU act together and grow.
btw, thank you. i never quite looked at it like this. great pride. USA!
ps i love finland, but i have to defend my home. we all have faults. for all its problems with diversity and cries to decrease immigration, it has a pristine environment and it takes care of its people. even if they are xenophobic. (if you cant admit facts. you are doomed)
1. A full democracy is not a direct democracy. I refer back to the definition I gave, highlighting "culture conducive to the thriving of democratic principles" (voter suppression, low voter turnout, openly gerrymandering, fading pluralism) & "valid system of governmental checks and balances" (impeachment disaster, poor corruption index) & "governments that function adequately" (eg a legislative that passes laws)
2. Good point. That statistic may reflect how polarised the society is instead of how corrupt or trustworthy the government is.
3. The USA is a democracy, it's just lacking enough to be considered flawed
4. Finland has been teaching students to withstand alternative facts long before Trump. With Russia as a neighbour the average voter must be equipped with basic tools to combat fake news. In maths lessons, primary school students learn how easy it is to lie with statistics. In art, they see how an image?s meaning can be manipulated. In history, they analyse notable propaganda campaigns, while in Finnish class political spin and the many ways in which words can be used to confuse, mislead and deceive is analysed. I hope the UK & USA respect the power of fake news enough to change their curriculums to combat it.
*civil liberties* and fundamental *political freedoms*? that sounds like usa. political freedoms entitle a people to be divided, and can allow for people to own guns. owning firearms can be seen as a massive civil liberty. usa fails in many categories such as social mobility and citizen welfare, however those are not part of your stated criteria imo. none of those are political freedoms like speech or civil liberties.
to your questions:
1. no, it's a democratic republic. we elect leaders who choose laws. we don't elect laws.
2. peoples opinions are irrelevant. i don't think the gov will do the right think because the opposing party is in charge. members that agree with Republican policy will. and with a divided government stalemates happen, which piss off everyone. disagreement is fundamental to democracy.
3. judging them on freedom and opportunity is better than judging based on a political form. especially since their definition has little to do with democracy. no, no developed nation is a pure democracy, but yes, the USA does lack on the freedom and opportunity metric.
4. alternative facts may take down Europe too. Brexit for example.
Full democracies are nations where civil liberties and fundamental political freedoms are not only respected but also reinforced by a political culture conducive to the thriving of democratic principles. These nations have a valid system of governmental checks and balances, an independent judiciary whose decisions are enforced, governments that function adequately, and diverse and independent media. These nations have only limited problems in democratic functioning.
Would you classify the USA as a full democracy? The EIU doesn't.
Do you trust the US government will do the right thing? Only 19% of Americans thinks so.
Do you believe none of the developed world is a full democracy? The EIU ranks 19 countries as full democracies, and we're sad to see what's happening in the USA.
I love the USA, but if they can't admit facts then they're doomed.
the electoral system is open and agreed upon. im sure the EU gave its smaller states certain benefits to convince them to join and ensure they dont get bullied by bigger states/nations.
this is a union of states that came together in mutal agreement, and this agreement is necessary. each individual state is still determined by popular vote within the state. this is not a miscarriage of democracy but a democratic agreement that may need to be revisited after 200 years.
if USA is flawed, then whole of democracy is flawed
Given that Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 but won the presidency I think it's hard to argue that the system isn't flawed.
and what democracy isnt flawed?