The debate "There is nothing wrong with consensual polyamory" was started by
February 21, 2015, 3:08 am.
13 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 12 people are on the disagree side.
People are starting to choose their side.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
I_Voyager posted 5 arguments, PsychDave posted 4 arguments, phattie83 posted 1 argument to the agreers part.
river93x posted 7 arguments to the disagreers part.
sickboyblonde, I_Voyager, Hjkp98, PsychDave, Mr_Anonymous, j_drisk87, phattie83, bitman, Sosocratese and 4 visitors agree.
river93x, wmd and 10 visitors disagree.
River, you seem to think that you are answering questions, when really all you are doing is stating your same opinion over again. I asked where the belief that it is unnatural and gross comes from. Why do they feel that way? Saying that they have their reasons is great, except that you don't seem to know what those reasons are, and therefore can't say that they don't stem from a religious upbringing.
Furthermore, the topic is polyamorous relationships. I can only interpret your decision to argue same sex relationships to mean that you either don't have arguments for polyamorous relationships, or you don't know what a polyamorous relationship is. For clarity, a polyamorous relationship is when the relationship is not exclusive, and everyone is aware of that. So you are saying that Marines are opposed to open relationships? I don't know any, so I am mostly working based on the people I know in the Canadian military, but many of them would love to be able to sleep with more than one woman and not ha e anyone's feelings get hurt by it. If you would like to rebut this please feel free, but at least try to argue the topic.
River, it's not necessary to find 100% blame for something.. Nothing is black and white, but that doesn't mean we can't pinpoint the greatest cause.. Religions, especially the Abrahamic ones, aggressively encourage monogamous relationships, and that tradition pervades western culture. You can argue that there's nothing wrong with that, but you can't argue against it being religion that is almost directly responsible for anti-polygamous and anti-gay mindsets..
Describing any form of marriage as unnatural is ignorant and unscientific, nature has almost every form of relationship imaginable throughout the animal kingdom.. What it doesn't have, is marriage!
Also, please proofread any more comments, it detracts from your argument (if you had one, that is)....
I've come to the terrible revelation that you're right! Oh hell, I'm a horrible debater. Just sad, really. Thank you! Thank you for the revelation, river93x! Can you forgive me for pooing on you? I'm sorry bro. I'm... Sorry!
But I feel the need to respectfully honor this gift by sifting through what you've produced firstly for me and at least trying, bitch though I might be, to support what was a faulty argument from the start. Whore though I might be, would you grant me this kindness?
haha and I_Voyager I'm glad you decided to stop wasting your time with me :) cause your just not all that good at this, I wish you the best of luck and hope you find a hobby you excel at :D maybe some puzzles? That might be a lil bit easier or some coloring books would be nice lol either way you were definitely the most entertaining one on here. Glad I had the pleasure of talking to you have a good one
I'm not saying that the military hates gays I will say they definitely are not fond of em I'm just saying non religious soldiers can be a prime example of people that may not like gays or whatever you may associate yourself without influence from any church, and this is from personal experience I know many marines that don't like gays or god for their own reasons, doesn't mean it has anything to do with the church once again. Which is something you aren't grasping for some reason you ask the same question a 100 ways gunna git the same answer which is, while the church may be an influence you can't blame 100% of the hate on the church. And look yes sure religion has pull, same with high ranking politicians, certain fields of science, and select private organizations its wrong but all government has its corruption which is beside the point but with all that pull religion still does not dictate what laws are passed, and if you honestly think religion controls all your paranoid, and have more faith in the church then I do XD And I can still do this all night especially when y'all talk in circles. While I've explained in great detail none of you have explained how the church is 100% responsible for the stigmatism gays receive. By the way do you really think that everyone but the church is on board with same gender sex? That's delusional!!! lmao
So the strawman you are setting up is that military people hate the gays. First, since you are imagining all parts of this scenario, let me ask, why do they think it is gross and unnatural? Who taught them that it was? Beliefs rarely spring into existence without some cause so tell me, where does this behavior from your imaginary Marines come from? I can only assume that either you have been in similar situations (since your example was very specific) or it is based on movies and the media, in which case you are imagining a conversation between people that is based on what someone else (the film maker) imagined their conversation was like. As I said, I have never heard someone argue that being gay is wrong unless either they, or their parents, felt that it was a sin. If there is another cause for this belief, please enlighten me.
Second, I would like to touch on separation between church and state. If you honestly believe that religious groups have no political pull, you are delusional. Religious groups lobby just as much as any other group. They also tend to have a great deal more luck influencing politicians when the politician is a member of their faith, and therefore already believes the same things they do. Creationism (the Christian creation story) being taught in science classes is a good example of religious groups pushing their agenda. Here in Canada, the Quebec Charter of Values is a similar case where people decided that their religious symbols were alright, but everyone else's had to go. If there was really a separation between church and state, and US policy was in no way tied to Christian values, how could you possibly justify having your money say "in God we trust"? There are millions of pieces of paper, issued by the US government, endorsing God.
As to the voting, that makes sense. I couldn't understand the difference between how you voted and your expressed opinion, but now that you have explained I withdraw my comments about it (I won't delete it so that people will know what you were responding to)
OK Dave now ima touch on the vote first as that was simply nothin more then a fluke I had already written my statement but when I was finished it required me to cast vote but on my phone to get to the votes without losing my writing is kinda funky so I just clicked any to submit my worded opinion nothin more then out of convince hell kinda forgot I even voted haha but since you don't seem to see where I'm coming from I'll explain it in a different context. Now as for same sex marriages even though the church has spoken openly against the subject, separation of church and state keeps religion from directly effecting any laws regarding the subject. It is ultimately up to the people to decide, once again unless you believe our society is incapable of forming their own opinions outside religion you can't directly say that the church is the sole cause of any laws that get passed into effect to hinder or stop practices like polyamory. Next I'm gunna touch on what you said about never hearing anything objective towards same sex or many partners that wasn't strictly religious. That being said just go to your local military base and talk to a group marines you can find plenty that don't just not believe in the church but hate everything about it, and still turn around and say they want nothing to do with people that are gay or are into polyamory assuming they know what second word means but you can find the hatred towards these people on any base in America. Not because religion has influenced them but simply because they think its gross or unnatural. Even with the don't ask don't tell policy gone you can still hear the hate on any base and it has nothing to do with religion. It comes down to everyone has an opinion on the matter and just because they disagree doesn't mean the church made em do it. So you want me to go into more detail cause I can do this all night lmao :D
River, the problem I have with your argument is that it shows how you voted. You disagreed that there is nothing wrong with polyamorous relationships, meaning that you have a problem with it. As far as I can tell, there are two possible reasons to do that. One is that you disagree with it for some reason, which is why I asked what your objection was. Since you said that you have no objection I can only assume that you voted solely to argue with Voyager.
With regards to me misunderstanding your response, I don't think I did. You made a valid point that not all religions are against polyamorous relationships, but you didn't really explain how the taboo against them is not based on Christian beliefs. I have never heard of an objection to these relationships that was not based on either religious grounds, or a prejudice against things that are "not normal". Just because not all religions oppose polyamorous doesn't mean that the taboo is not based on religion.
Wait for it...
Wait for it...
Waaaait for it........
I'd waste my tendons giving you anything more than.
haha he was only defending you because he failed to realize what I was talkin about you refuse to debate because you don't know how lmao anyone with half a mind can see I don't even have to try to put you down you really really make it to easy I've explained in detail my opinion where you have yet to describe anything and I'm not gunna put words in Dave's mouth but I'm pretty sure he misunderstood where I was coming from and if not he to has failed to counter any argument of mine so I_Voyager try a lil harder bro this is getting boring lol maybe your just not quite cut out for debating, cause you don't seem to grasp the core concept of explaining your opinion :D
Jesus Christ on a stick, with a concise debater like PsychDave defending me I hardly feel like I have to make a counter-argument. Onward noble Aegean, show this Trojan what-for.
Haha dude what are you talking about!? I have no problem with polyamory and I believe people should be able to do what they want in their own homes I'm just simply arguing I_Voyagers comment stating that 100% of the stigmatism towards people that practice those acts are because of the church. Its a tad bit ridiculous, that is saying our society can't form their own opinions on what should be taboo and what shouldn't outside of religion and I did explain my thoughts on that XD So Dave since you seem to think that what I'm so wrong and crazy please explain cause I'd love to see where your gunna take this next lmao.
I don't have any problems with people doing whatever they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone else. That said, river93x, you attack 8_voyager for making general statements about religion being at fault for the stigma, but you make no attempts to actually explain your perspective. Why do you have a problem with polygamous relationships? Why do you think it's wrong? You should try debating the topic, not just denouncing someone who is. Christianity says that marriage is between a man and a woman, and that has influenced the legal definition of marriage in the West. If that is not why polyamory is wrong in your mind, why is it?
First off these are debates if you simply throw out an unspecified statement with no facts or evidence behind your reasoning your asking for someone to misinterpret what you wrote, and yes in the west Christianity is highly influential but no location was specified in the topic nor did you specify one yourself, which means we are talking about the topic in its entirety. But either way to blame all stigmatism on Christianity is still a far stretch cause their a many people religious or not that aren't OK with taboo things like polyamory. Some societies just don't except certain practices, and even if influenced by religion Christianity has no direct effect on what our society deans acceptable. Especially in today's western societies where Christianity isn't so mainstream anymore. And so you know the only reason why I assume you lack knowledge is because you do not follow any of your statements up with any reasoning what so ever but have no problem calling out ones beliefs to be false and hateful, and its not your opinion that I have a problem with but your blatant arrogance for others beliefs. But hay don't take what I say personally I'm just messing with ya cause you make it to easy lol at the end of the day I could care less if your Nazi these are just debates for personal enjoyment your opinion means nothing to me when I set down my phone. I would just find it more fun and challenging if you tried a little harder :D but hay don't git down we all gotta start somewhere haha
It's amusing, eternally to me, when people read a statement I've made purposefully generalized, and assume the fact of the generalization emits from a lack of knowledge and not an imposition of personal historical context. Nor will I make an argument to you, because the further I make arguments the further I encounter hot-headed fools who can't determine the context of a statement without making rational argument based on the stature of the person they are talking to. Of course polymory exists in, and is fundamental in several religions! Let's not even explore the complexity of human religion. In the west, the mainstream Christian influence throughout its dominant history has pushed a man-and-wife centric theocratic prison upon the philisophical concepts of marriage in western society. Yes, small cults and cult-like faiths have pushed the boundary of that law, but that laws has been rigidly oppressive to those concepts socially, especially through the romantic tradition of marriage in western entertainment which has been, until very recently, a strictly monogamous thing.
Human nature, being what it is, always vibrates, and there's no need to describe the whole vibration all the time. I don't need to explore the sub culture of metalheads to make a comment on western tradition, I don't have to make a comment on Mormons and Muslims and Tantric cults to comment of the massive influence of Christian theocracy from the 1500's to 1800's has still had on western culture through to today.
haha wow I_Voyager you are on here more to bash on religion then to debate topics with any intellect. Once again you ignorantly throw out some bold statement blaming all stigmatism towards polyamory on religion. Providing zero facts and reasoning behind your opinion. Hell you don't even state what religion your even talking about. In fact I'd go as far to say that you have no idea what polyamory even means without a google search, cause if you did you would know that some well known religious groups practice or have practiced these acts in some form or another. Mormans believed in having many wives, while this practice is illegal pretty much everywhere in the U.S. you still have other countries where its completely excepted. Their are even religions where same gender sex is completely OK. You do realize that their are an extreme amount of religions out there all with their own laws and beliefs and to just group all of them together and blame our SOCIETY'S thought's and choices on the subject all on religion is laughable. I've explained this to you specifically several times already, yet you continue to spew uneducated biased rude comments towards religion as a whole. I don't know what your deal is with faith, maybe you were an alter boy that spent to much time with the priest. But either way before posting on here I_Voyager do some research on what you would like to debate, form a solid opinion with reasoning behind it, and always keep in mind you could be wrong. But as far as hate bashing goes I'll break it down to you piece by piece every time till you get it XD so have a good one and I'll be lookin forward to your next comment :D
The taboo against it is entirely religious.