The debate "Transgender is not a sin" was started by
April 11, 2015, 9:50 pm.
96 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 57 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
transfanboy posted 1 argument, PsychDave posted 10 arguments, JakobBoghora posted 1 argument to the agreers part.
Marvelgirl2002 posted 1 argument, Liona posted 1 argument, toughgamerjerry posted 2 arguments, Damn3d posted 5 arguments to the disagreers part.
transfanboy, Mastermind, Bodaciouslady16, mancandyandy, parth311, Getmurked, hardikrawat, Shuttey, PsychDave, YesOrNo, Shreedeep, Vivinary, Caelan, I_Voyager, invincible_01, rionagh99, Hjkp98, rcheyanne99, Dbass24, Natalie_097, Shahmir, Chabii, AwfulOctopus, jonatron5, scooter6381, v_d, sighnomore99, skyfrancois_97, sdiop, Rhiannon09, kyopsis23, charliec1007, Pamelamccubbins, unfitzangetsu, soullesschicken, jedty, PhoenixF1re, denno27, luxuxx, PandaKidd, JakobBoghora, why, Loula and 53 visitors agree.
debateer, ufufugh, pretty_twin, JMP9940, Kirito, Marvelgirl2002, Gabrielle, judge, Liona, toughgamerjerry, Damn3d, brandongb31, ibrahim, WhyNot, DavidStuff777, evamara, GetRekt, rcmcmurray, tr, action007man, The_lamp, CJismyname12, Ashna, beatrice, neveralone, The13yearoldconservative, RealCaffNasty and 30 visitors disagree.
Even though they are ugly in the process, they can become sexy dickgirls we men can give a blowjob.
***Last paragraph : I meant yes as in yes, it is a sin, not yes to the question itself. And later, I meant 'to those who agreed' not 'to those who disagreed' Swapped the intent of the question. All apologies.
Understandable. Will not be studying psychology when I leave for college in the fall, but I will take your word for it. I do see the possibility for ambiguous interpretations.
The way I see it from a religious perspective is this. God created man in 'his image'. The soul, which makes us fully human and not just animals, is the image of God that lives inside us. God is neither male nor female, because he does not follow the rules of human existence. Therefore, the soul is neither male nor female. Scripture says almost nothing about this topic so it is hard to tell, but from deduction I am led to believe souls are gender less. I am not one to consider every hypothetical, but let's assume the soul does in fact have gender. I would find it difficult to believe that God would do such a thing, but I am not free to say that.
The ultimatum is that in regard to the sacredness of sexuality, God has not simply 'made a mistake'. If we are created in such a fashion, then we are called to live in that fashion, and I really can't say too much more as to it.
Also, I had to mention, I suspect that regardless of religion, many people had Christianity in mind when answering this question. The question is then indisputable, the answer is yes, the question now becomes 'why?' ! Truly, though, to those that disagreed with the question, where is your argument? Argue from the perspective of Islam, Hinduism, whatever oud like, but if you think that it is not a sin to Catholics that's flat out wrong. Also would be nice to hear from the original poster, who had posted nothing since creating the question.
Also, I appreciate your understanding. I am not one to be terribly politically correct, but going through a psychology degree Hammered into me some terms that we should use with care since they are often misused.
For Christian beliefs to be valid, they must believe in an immortal soul. Thus soul is given to us by God and, after death ascends to live in heaven (assuming we have lived as we should). This soul is the driving force of who we are, not our physical bodies. This is what let prophets and disciples bear torture and execution in the name of spreading God's word. If God selects the soul for each person, what if he selected a female soul to be put into a male body, or vise versa? How would that person look and feel? I can't claim that I speak for God, and I will never attempt to, but neither do I believe that anyone on Earth cam speak for God. Is it at all possible that it could be part of God's plan? Transgendered people could be driven, not by a psychological problem, but by their soul itself. God divided people into man and woman, but what if the defining characteristic was not, as one recent debate phrased it, plumbing?
I am aware, not one to be euphemistic but I will respect your opinion and refrain from its use. Anyways.
I do understand your point about coping with their problems. It is a sin because it is dealing with these problems in the wrong manor.
The truth is, 'thinking' we are one thing or another does not make us such. If you said to me, "I am a monkey because I believe that I think like a monkey" I would understand that you are not a monkey. Likewise, if Bruce Jenner says "I am a woman because I think like one ", does that make him a woman? No!
The suicidal believe, and truly believe, that they are worthless, that life has no meaning, and that they would be better off dead. But is what they believe necessarily true? Should we encourage them to deal with their problem by killing themselves? Hopefully, one would try and help them to understand, to find peace in their life.
It is the same with those who wish to change their sex. If one feels as if they are the opposite gender, and decides to have surgery to change it, then they should be offered psychological help, and if that does nothing then the person is called to live their lives the way they are. The creation of man and woman is perhaps one of the most essential tenets of religion in relation to humankind, and therfore changing that is considered immoral and coping with the problem in the wrong fashion. The sanctity of life and of sex are important to the Christian faith,and therefore harming or deforming the human body cannot be accepted.
I'm not sure why someone disagreed that the word retard has negative connotations. Could the person who did so please explain?
On a side note, I know you didn't mean it to be but retarded is a word that has very negative meanings. I don't say this to criticize your point, just so that, if you weren't aware, you don't inadvertently insult someone or offend someone.
I understand your perspective, but what if you extended your view of transgendered to be a challenge to the individual? It is no different than anyone else's challenge. In this case, they are not disrespecting God's gift, not rejecting his plan. They are coping with the challenge He has given them, namely being born a girl in a boy's body, or vice versa. Just like a prosthetic limb helping someone who was born without, gender realignment helps transgendered people with their challenge. God made them body, mind and soul. If their body is male, but their mind and soul are female, being transgendered isn't a sin, it is part of God's plan for them.
And I have no clue about circumcision. Am neither Jewish nor am I well informed of the origins of the practice. Seems a bit odd to me as well.
Indeed... Well, here is round 3.
As pointed out, the statement mentions 'sin' and therefore becomes a strickly religious argument. Coming from a religious background (though perhaps not as faithful anymore) I will attempt to explain it as such.
God created men and women to be different but equal. Dave, I completely understand your concern with trying to change people's defects/diseases. It is certainly not an easy answer, but although they seem similar I will attempt to discern the difference.
Firstly, about those born with defects. Christians believe that God created us all with different gifts as well as different challenges. Although some seem underprivileged on earth, they may be gifted in different ways. For example, a retarded man, although seemingly pitiful, has the gift of simplicity, and all his earthly suffering may be rewarded at the end of his life. But a rich man, seemingly admirable, may face the challenges of greed and self absorption, and his earthly success will do him no good at death.
At the same time, there is also an understanding that God gave us medicine to help ease the suffering. Medicine is the aid to the physically ailing as a psychologist may be to the mentally ailing. Christians believe these are gifts from God to help on the journey of life, to ease our suffering.
There are a few things, however, that are sacred, and sexuality is one of them. It is known as one of God's greatest gifts. The word that sticks out there is gift. Whether we are male or female, it is not intended to be a burden - - but one of God's ultimate gifts. And because of that, changing sex cannot be acceptable.
In closing, sexuality is something so fundamental and basic to our identity, and is a gift. Therefore, changing it is a sin. It shares the same basis as suicide: We must help those who wish to make such a decision, and help them to understand life & sexuality isn't a curse yet a gift. Perhaps this may have cleared it up a bit.
Disclaimer: I am not a priest. This is my general knowledge of the Faith. Views expressed are not necessarily my own.
Fair enough, I've had my share of arguments lost and after the 2nd or 3rd time usually just give up and assume it wasn't meant to be. I look forward to reading your response.
I am not very religious, but I will argue from religious perspective because, otherwise, the debate becomes meaningless.
1)God made you who he wanted you to be
The problem I have with this argument is that people are born with birth defects, crippling, life shortening illnesses, and are stillborn. If every person was made perfectly in God's image, why are these people not healthy? Should they not be treated for their conditions since God wanted them to be this way? I know that was not your intention in your argument, but we modify people all the time with organ donation, prosthetic limbs and other treatments that are necessary due to problems from birth.
2)Your body is a temple, do not change it
The Bible specifies that men are to be circumcised. That is very painful, and a permanent modification. While I do not think that is a biblical free pass to do whatever you want, it does show that God is not against modifying genitals, at least in one regard.
If we treat it as a choice to disregard what God chose, that would probably constitute a sin since the individual is choosing to ignore God's will. If we treat it as a treatment for the psychological problems associated with body dysphoria, I feel it would not be a sin any more than any other medical treatment.
I just realized all my grammatical errors in my post. Sorry!
I myself had a very hard time making this decision but I will elaborate on why I disagree. I will be using religious arguments since that is what your focusing on.
1. God make you a boy (or girl) so if that is what God made you to be, then that is what he wants your to be. You may feel a boy but be a girl, but that's called being a tomboy. The reason why you would feel like you want to change genders, is because you like what the opposite gender likes, but you want to feel a closer connection between you and them.
2. God does say in the Bible that your body is a temple and you should not do anything to hurt or change it. Now this is the tricky part. I believe that makeup is not against biblical law, but I do believe that permanent tattoos are against biblical law. Makeup can be washed off of your body easily, but have you seen how tattoos get into your skin? They take a bunch of needles, put ink on them, and stick them in and out of your skin many many times. That is hurting the body and to me is against biblical law. Getting your ears pierced is hard to decide too, but I think it's on how big you get them pierced. If it is small enough to heal, then I think it's ok, if it's too big, then I don't think it's ok. And last I checked, you can't wash off your private parts or wait for them to heal, so in my opinion it is against biblical law to become transgender.
But then there is also the fact that there are a lot of laws that just do not apply to us in this day and age, from the old testament that is, and so there can be debate on this.
Do you are taking upon yourself to say that either God must not have known it was coming, or to decide for yourself that God would disprove because you say so? There is nothing in the Bible that even hints at being transgendered being a sin. God doesn't object to body modification (otherwise pierced ears would be a sin) and even required it in the old testament (circumcision). If there is no sign if it being a sin, why would you assume that no information means it is wrong?
Bible writes down all types of sin. Then why does not it writes trangender as a sin? Because it was not available in those times.
You might want to look into it a bit more. It is more of a constant feeling that who you are mentally, emotionally and spiritually doesn't match who you are physically.
An example I used in another debate on the topic is to imagine that you woke up tomorrow in the body of someone else. Mentally you are still yourself, but physically you are now a completely different person. There would always be the feeling that something is wrong. You don't need to read minds to know that something is wrong. It is hard to put yourself in that mindset, but that is about the closest comparison I can make to demonstrate what transgendered people experience. Add to that the social expectations based on gender, bullying and harassment for being different, and normal stresses and problems and it can build up to be an overwhelming stress load, leading to depression and other mental illness.
I don't see how you would want to swap genders. If you were a boy and feel that deep inside you were a girl then how do you know what being a girl feels like? You aren't telepathic.
Nowhere in the Bible could it possibly say that being transgendered is a sin since the medical technology simply did not exist when the Bible was written. Religious people could argue that you are changing the form God gave you, which could constitute a sin, but the same could be said of piercing, tattoos, any kind of plastic surgery, hair dye, or makeup.
Some religions say homosexuality is a sin, but being transgendered does not mean being homosexual, so they are separate, though not mutually exclusive attributes.
PLEASE ELABORATE IF YOU DISAGREE