The debate "Transgenders equality and hate crimes are different. Should be recognized as a illness not a culture" was started by
June 20, 2018, 11:18 pm.
15 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 13 people are on the disagree side.
People are starting to choose their side.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
Drakgo posted 5 arguments to the agreers part.
Nemiroff posted 6 arguments to the disagreers part.
Drakgo, RealCaffNasty, mlowe, Masonearl, Andji and 10 visitors agree.
Nemiroff, luljeta101, tenyiyi and 10 visitors disagree.
What I meant by natural is by a healthy human standard. A normal healthy human are not born with tumors. It's not natural. It's an abnormality.
The link also has the statistics for the suicide rate post operation.
Everyone has the right to do what they want with there life. Just can't impose your lifestyle on others. It's unconstitutional to demand laws imposing someone's ideals on the general public. Especially, when there is little evidence supporting the complaint. Or if it's only for political gain.
Bullying is wrong and at levels a crime. It's a free country and you can say what you want. But life teaches everyone that what you say and do is not without consequence.
So, if you live in a society whose beliefs are against your ideas, you can't demand someone to change there beliefs because you don't think that way. That is bigotry. Unless it's a hate crime, you can't question another person's morale standards.
I see a ucla study stating 41% (near 50) for trans in general, not post op. I cant open your link so I cant confirm. the only study linking post op with suicide that I can find is the swedish study
and tumors are absolutely natural, what's unnatural about them?
the only reference I saw about the surgery and suicide was a swedish study, and I did didnt want to download the pdf but it seems UCLA was just referencing it.
I'm not sure how the country of origin would invalidate a medical study, biology works pretty similarly everywhere.
the thing is that both the science community and the medical community agree on the distinction between gender and sex. that's why no medical form or birth certificate ever uses the term gender.
politicians on both sides pander to their constituents (that's their job, they represent us) so anything you say about the lefty politician agenda I can say the same about righty politicians, let's leave them out. the gender vs sex debate is not a fabrication of politics or the press, it's been a clear distinction in science and medicine for decades.
I think the acceptance of the difference between gender and sex amongst all forms of academia (including hard sciences and medicine) kinda legitimizes it. and as I said previously, 2 words are never meant to have the same meaning.
"your link isnt working for me but it's a swedish study right?"
My information comes from UCLA. It's an American study.
The only reason I say politician is because of not of your mentioning but because they entertain the ideas as facts when there entire perspective is opinion based.
Your article is foreign. It's an Germany study on America transgender community. My information is from American University on the American transgender community. American study says that suicide is almost 50% likely to happen.
No doctor treating a transgender will recommend feeding a delusion. No scientist will state that there are more than two types of sexes or genders to be a fact, without losing credibility with there medical profession.
Medicine and science are parallel to each other.
Just because you feel a certain way doesn't make it a fact. All these opinionated genders are not absolute facts, they are option based.
A tumor isn't natural, but a penis and clitoris is. Medical science is a remedy for abnormalities of the standard healthy human state.
Plus, once again, if a person can't wake up in the morning and look themselves in the mirror and love who they are born to be, that is a mental issue. The severity of the issue depends on the case of the individual.
Everyone has the right to have plastic surgery, but like I said, that will never change who they are.
The issue also with politician's is that they push a selfish agenda on this issue and are trying to force people to acknowledge the transgender person for whatever gender they want to be. Plus, transgender want straight men to accept them, and transgender women want to date straight women. This is in reality gay and lesbian, but the transgender community and government want this to be norm and considered straight.
This is bias and delusional.
your link isnt working for me but it's a swedish study right?
it seems to conflict with the majority of other studies that paint a completely different picture, like this one:
a doctor isnt a scientist, and I never brought up politicians. and every surgery is about correcting mistakes nature bestowed on us... we didnt put the tumor inside a person, nature did. all of medicine is a big middle finger to nature, and God bless it.
the difference is in genotype vs phenotype. genotype is our default blueprints, unchanging. but phenotype is how they are expressed. so although they have xy, they may have hormonal imbalances that make them feel more feminine then masculine.
honestly the multigender thing is something that has happened across cultures from the Greeks to the Philippines and many many other places, it's not some new fad. like I said, it has ntihing to do with genetics or sex, gender is about personality. (like the artist known as prince, he was totally a dude, but you couldn't tell if he was gay, straight, or something in between)
it's not a change of language if it describes something completely different. what is the point of having 2 words mean the exact same thing? with the exception of things like numbers (12/dozen) what other words mean the *exact* same thing?
Suicide Attempts among Transgender ... - Williams Institute
PDFUCLA.edu ? law ? williamsinstitute ? AF...
If you look at the link above, UCLA states that after transgender reassignment surgery 43 to 49 percent of transgenders commit suicide. Therefore surgery doesn't help the situation.
No doctor in the world will support the idea of playing into the delusion that surgery is correcting the mistakes that nature bestowed upon the individual.
Sociologist isn't a doctor, nor is any politician. If you are transgender and attain a doctrine in psychology, does it make you a nonbias individual on gender dysphoria? Would not the patients be running the hospital?
This is a little off of the subject but, anyone who claims a gender outside of what nature ordained them, those are signs and simptoms of a mental illness, because they are not tuned to reality.
Opinion doesn't overrule scientific fact and absolute truth. Nor does attempting to change language in attempt to become something you are not.
At the end of the day a man by any other name is still a man.
ah ok, when you said any gender I thought you were referencing the multi gender view of gender. I dont think there is anything wrong with them. but yes, the trans people almost exclusively gender dysphoric.
however, as you said, people are killing themselves over this illness, so how do you suggest we address it? people who did have realignment surgery report having significantly improved quality of life and so far we have had 0 reversals or perverts willing to have their genitals chopped up just to access the women's bathroom. sounds like a working solution.
also, I'm sure you've heard the claim that gender and sex are different things. a biology book almost exclusively used sex to talk about physical characteristics, but psychology and sociology books use both in very different ways. that's why some people talk about 3rd genders. it's a personality trait more to do with feminine vs masculine then Male vs female.
prince for example is a 3rd gender person (before the labels)
"I think your combining 2 different issues.
transgender people dont have anything to do with "any gender outside of what reality deems". they only think in the same 2 genders you think in, but they feel they are the wrong one. (that's gender dysphoria)"
Transgenders for the most part do have gender dysphoria. If they can't accept the gender they are born to be is the same as not accepting reality. If a person commits suicide because of the fact that they can't accept the truth that they are who they are born to be is gender dysphoria. Because reality is, gender is absolute. There are only two types of chromosomes. Therefore, if reality dems you a Y chromosome and you can't accept it and you want to be a X chromosome, you are trying to be a gender outside what reality determines absolute.
That is what I mean by "any gender outside of what reality deems."
I agree, anyone who shames, and mistreats anyone should be scolded or feel justice worthy of the pain they put others through.
I apologise for misspelling.
"But no one is helping the ill fated by telling them there is nothing wrong and acknowledging them as any gender outside of what reality dems absolute truth"
I think your combining 2 different issues.
transgender people dont have anything to do with "any gender outside of what reality deems". they only think in the same 2 genders you think in, but they feel they are the wrong one. (that's gender dysphoria)
the "any gender" people are the gender non conformists, and they are absolutely fine with their gender and their genitalia. they dont want hormone treatment or surgery, and they feel fine.
you certainly shouldn't tell someone who is sick is fine, but isn't that what anti trans people are doing telling them to stop faking and there is nothing wrong with them? If they are ill, they should be treated.
okay, we both agree gender dysphoria is an illness. So, how is it helping the illness by agreeing with them. you are making the illness worse. it's wrong and can be a crime to bully and discriminate anyone. But no one is helping the ill fated by telling them there is nothing wrong and acknowledging them as any gender outside of what reality dems absolute truth. If you believe a transgender is something besides there birth gender, does that make you a bit delusional or maybe ill? I don't mean it as an insult to anyone, but what does gender dysphoria mean?
sick people cant be discriminated against?
gender dysphoria is considered a disease, that doesnt change the fact that all people deserve equal treatment.