Trump Takes Care of Business Iran top general dead

January 3, 2020, 9:20 am

Agree20 Disagree14

59%
41%

The debate "Trump Takes Care of Business Iran top general dead" was started by jrardin12 on January 3, 2020, 9:20 am. 20 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 14 people are on the disagree side. That might be enough to see the common perception. It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.

jrardin12 posted 11 arguments to the agreers part.
historybuff posted 8 arguments to the disagreers part.

jrardin12, WyattTrull, eva_pet35 and 17 visitors agree.
StrangeTime, historybuff, Zucadragon and 11 visitors disagree.

historybuff
replied to...

"And so therefore Iran isn't responsible sense no evidence was provided? It's speculations but considering the circumstances, i don't blame Trump for taking out the Commander. "
So if you are accused of a crime with no evidence provided at all, someone should be allowed to kill you and that would be fine? Basically, Trump murdered someone without offering a shred of evidence he was guilty of the crime he accused him of. It's even worse than that though because he was a high ranking member of a foriegn government and killing him will almost certainly get alot more people killed.

"He said they were classified if he does reveal them, maybe we would be more at risk if we knew, then more Americans would want war."\
Much more likely the evidence doesn't exist. Haven;t you learned by now that the US government loves lying to justify war? They did it in vietnam, they did it in afganistan, they did it in Iraq. Why would believe they are telling the truth now when they have provided no information at all?

8 months, 1 week ago
historybuff
replied to...

"No i am not wrong. Just because he sent more troops over doesn't mean the middle East war was his Ideas."
You said sending troops to the middle east wasn't his idea, but he sent troops to the middle east. that was his idea. so you are wrong. The previous wars in the middle east aren't his fault. The increasing tensions with Iran and the war that could lead to very much is.

"Umm how many attacks were there? As far as i know, there weren't very many. It's only the one that i heard of." Massively ramping up sanctions, torching a deal that multiple other countries wanted to continue, those are attacks on Iran.

"owe i forgot to mention that U.S retaliated when Iran stormed the U.S embassy."
except that Iran didn't do that. A shia militia did.

"And when they heard about there commander Dying. They went and shot down a Ukrainian plane."
Shooting down the plane was an accident caused by the increased tensions trump created.

"An attack on Iran puts the U.S at risk at Terrorism?"
yes, very much so.

"Yet Trump says that Iran was plotting against the U.S anyway. Yes he hasn't revealed it saying it would compromise intelligence sources and methods. So its classified information."
so the government says a middle eastern country is doing something bad, they can't prove it, but we should just trust them. That is exactly how the iraq war started. The US government lied and said Sadam had weapons of mass destruction. Trump doesn't even have the decency to make up a good lie. He just makes some vague statements about a threat that other people in the government have confirmed didn't exist.

"Umm no he is not. He never led any Terrorist attacks in the Middle East. Again, he wants to pull out of the wars."
you don't think that bombing markets, weddings and funerals count as terrorism? The rest of the world certainly does.

"Now that's just speculations as far as we know. The death Toll could probably be the same."
estimates of the death toll of the Iraq war range from hundreds of thousands to millions. Iran has double the population of Iraq, it is much larger than iraq and much more rugged than iraq, which would make invading it much more difficult. A war with Iran would be bloody and terrible.

8 months, 1 week ago
marky
replied to...

"He has sent thousands more troops into Iraq and Saudi Arabia. So, no. You are wrong." So has Obama. No i am not wrong. Just because he sent more troops over doesn't mean the middle East war was his Ideas.

"If that were true he wouldn't be continuously attacking and committing acts of war against Iran." Umm how many attacks were there? As far as i know, there weren't very many. It's only the one that i heard of.


"The US committed an act of war by murdering a senior government official. Iran had no choice but to respond. The US would certainly have done worse. Their response was about as limited as anyone could hope for." owe i forgot to mention that U.S retaliated when Iran stormed the U.S embassy.


"Lol they wanted to stop terrorism by committing an act of war? Americans are at a much higher risk of dying to a terrorist attack today than they were before america committed that murder."

Again, they were acting out in the middle East in Terrorism. And when they heard about there commander Dying. They went and shot down a Ukrainian plane. So in the past twenty years in war. An attack on Iran puts the U.S at risk at Terrorism? You say he committed an act of war, Yet Trump says that Iran was plotting against the U.S anyway. Yes he hasn't revealed it saying it would compromise intelligence sources and methods. So its classified information.


"Trump is a general causing terrorism in the middle east. So i guess he also needs to be killed?" Umm no he is not. He never led any Terrorist attacks in the Middle East. Again, he wants to pull out of the wars.

"America still hasn't managed to get out of it's last wars. Going to war with iran with be catastrophic. The death toll would be in the millions." Now that's just speculations as far as we know. The death Toll could probably be the same.

"A shia militia did that. No evidence has ever been provided that Iran was involved in that."

And so therefore Iran isn't responsible sense no evidence was provided? It's speculations but considering the circumstances, i don't blame Trump for taking out the Commander. He said they were classified if he does reveal them, maybe we would be more at risk if we knew, then more Americans would want war.

8 months, 1 week ago
historybuff
replied to...

"Thing is, Trump never issued the U.S Troops to be in the middle east."

He has sent thousands more troops into Iraq and Saudi Arabia. So, no. You are wrong.

"Mainly he wants to pull of Seriya and wants to stop fighting in the Middle East."
If that were true he wouldn't be continuously attacking and committing acts of war against Iran.

"Iran did issue the attack after the president went and killed there commanding leader. So it was Iran's Idea to do so. It was for revenge."
The US committed an act of war by murdering a senior government official. Iran had no choice but to respond. The US would certainly have done worse. Their response was about as limited as anyone could hope for.

"The attack may have brought the U.S closer to the Iranian war, but Trump and Pence were not causing Terrorism when they wanted to attack a commander doing the Terrorism too. The two wanted to stop terrorism."
Lol they wanted to stop terrorism by committing an act of war? Americans are at a much higher risk of dying to a terrorist attack today than they were before america committed that murder.

"It was an attack on a general causing Terrorism in the Middle East. It had to be done."
Trump is a general causing terrorism in the middle east. So i guess he also needs to be killed?

"Even if we were to go to war with Iran, it really wouldn't make a difference cause, it's just war for a longer time, that people seemingly don't know how to end."
America still hasn't managed to get out of it's last wars. Going to war with iran with be catastrophic. The death toll would be in the millions.

"owe i forgot to mention that U.S retaliated when Iran stormed the U.S embassy."
A shia militia did that. No evidence has ever been provided that Iran was involved in that.

8 months, 1 week ago
marky
replied to...

owe i forgot to mention that U.S retaliated when Iran stormed the U.S embassy.

8 months, 1 week ago
marky
replied to...

Your right on that, that is probably one of the reasons he wants to pull out. He stated he wanted to pull out. wants to leave it in the hands of Turkey, Russia, and Irach. Thing is, Trump never issued the U.S Troops to be in the middle east. Mainly he wants to pull of Seriya and wants to stop fighting in the Middle East.

Yes the U.S did go and be Terrorist in the middle East. Those weren't orders from the President or Mike pence, they didn't order for them to bully other nations, that wasn't them. I wouldn't blame them for the wars. No, Iran did issue the attack after the president went and killed there commanding leader. So it was Iran's Idea to do so. It was for revenge.

"America commits acts of terror all the time. That makes Trump and Pence some of the biggest terrorists in the world." What about Obama, or George bush? or congress? To Iranians, they see Trump and Pence as terrorists. Yet they did the same thing the U.S did for twenty years. The attack may have brought the U.S closer to the Iranian war, but Trump and Pence were not causing Terrorism when they wanted to attack a commander doing the Terrorism too. The two wanted to stop terrorism. Which is why Trump also wants to pull out.


Also, if Mike pence was a Terrorist trying to intimidate people then no one would disagree on killing him. The attack wasn't you be a Terrorist. It was an attack on a general causing Terrorism in the Middle East. It had to be done. Even if we were to go to war with Iran, it really wouldn't make a difference cause, it's just war for a longer time, that people seemingly don't know how to end.

8 months, 1 week ago
historybuff
replied to...

"First off Iran was actually causing lots of terrorism in the middle east."
The US causes lots of terrorism in the middle east too. They regularly bomb civilian targets with drones. Why is it evil for Iran to do that but fine for america?

"Let's not forget that Iran attacked the U.S Military basses. By Iran."
I'm not aware of any incidents where iranian soldiers killed americans. Shia militias who are allies of Iran certainly do, but they are not iranians, nor are they directly controlled by iran.

America commits acts of terror all the time. That makes Trump and Pence some of the biggest terrorists in the world, at least to the Iranians. So if they took out a terrorist leader (pence) you would be totally fine with that?

8 months, 1 week ago
marky
replied to...

First off Iran was actually causing lots of terrorism in the middle east. Let's not forget that Iran attacked the U.S Military basses. By Iran.

How it's reading into it a little to much is that him killing an enemy that has been training terrorist armies and decides to attack a military base. Thankfully no one was hurt. And then ignore what Iran was doing and look what Trump did. He killed a high Foreign country leader. Even though they attacked the U.S first.


I will cut my arm off and sell it if the U.S is constantly attacking Iran. That is not what's happening. Keep in mind, They were in Irach when this happened. So Iran was attacking the U.S. Iran was acting out in Terrorism. Attacking homes, causing chaos etc.

"It finally agreed to terms to lower tensions and move towards peace under Obama"

Well, that went out the window. Like I said in the Paragraphs above. They were causing chaos in the middle east. Then attacked the U.S military base, and then get mad that Trump wants war even though the man needed to be stopped. If Obama did try to make peace with Iran, that failed.

And if it's so wrong for Trump to take action against people that attacked his military, and attacking the middle East, I guess we should let them right?

And don't give me he's been pushing for war. Every other government was pushing for war ever sense the 9/11 attack. For twenty years. Why are you only faulting him for that?

He almost bombed an Iranian base... So? it didn't happen. we're at war now. Iran has been committing acts of war around the middle East and Trump response with war. Cause what they were doing. Did you know about Iran shooting down a Ukrainian plane? And then said we would investigate. And the Iran reports were saying that the Iran regime blamed trump for ratching up tension to kill a senior Iran military commander. This was after they launched the attack on the U.S Military.


Do you know who convinced Trump? Who were trying to get Iran to respond with violence? we're as you getting this. Trump isn't that stupid come on now. He did this at his own accord... No one else.

8 months, 1 week ago
historybuff
replied to...

America is not at war with Iran. Why would you say that it is?

How is assassinating a top member of a foreign government "reading into this a little too much"? If Trump had assassinated a high ranking member of the British or Canadian government, would it be reading too much into it to say that is an act of war?

America is constantly attacking Iran. It finally agreed to terms to lower tensions and move towards peace under Obama. Trump tore that up and started attacking them. He has been consistently pushing america closer to war with iran since he got into office. He almost did it when he almost bombed an Iranian base a few months ago, but called it off at the last minute. He has now committed and outright act of war but the Iranians chose to be the much more reasonable party and didn't kill any americans in their retaliation.

Make no mistake. The people that convinced trump to do this knew iran would respond with violence, they were counting on it. They wanted americans to die so they could invade. The only reason that hasn't happened is that the Iranians were more peaceful than america was.

8 months, 1 week ago
marky
replied to...

need I remind you we have been at war for twenty years now... Don't you think your reading into this a little to much? Don't get me wrong. I see were he is coming from. Except I heard he wanted to pull his troops. Then ridiculed for it. All of the sudden he devises to kill an enemy it's a bad thing? If it's an act of war you are against, even though we have been at war for twenty years. But Trump wants violence cause he killed a man that we were already at war with anyway. So can you take the moment to consider that he went and took out a man that probably was going to attack the U.S again?

8 months, 1 week ago
historybuff
replied to...

America has numerous enemies all over the world. Does killing them make america more prosperous or safer? Sometimes the answer is yes. Groups like al qaeda are stateless and have no intention of working towards peace. So fighting them in the right circumstances makes sense.

Iran is not the same. They are a reasonably large, powerful country. The man Trump murdered wasn't some terrorist commander, he was one of the top members of a national government. Killing him was an act of war. Think about what would america do if iran murdered Mike Pence? They would be banging the drum to start a war. That is what Trump did. He massively ratcheted up tensions making violence and death much more likely. He increased the odds of a war with Iran by a significant amount.

So to loop back to your question. "Your against the him taking out an enemy to the U.S?". If taking out that enemy makes america safer and more prosperous, then maybe. But this made america less safe. It imperils american lives all over the world and could have catastrophic ripple effects. One of those ripples is the accidental shooting down of an air liner. The iranians were on edge expecting an american attack and accidentally killed 176 people. Trump didn't intend for those people to die, but his actions led to tensions that killed them.

8 months, 1 week ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

im against endangering the lives of americans and bolstering terrorists throughout the region for a reckless, thoughtless, cowboy action.

i mean, with your short sighted mentality, why dont we just bomb the ayatollah and all our other enemies? bombs away, yahoo!

9/11 was a tradgedy, are you that eager to repeat it? and if you claim it was in self defense, we are still waiting for any evidence regarding that. trump does have a tendency to lie. a lot.

8 months, 1 week ago
marky
replied to...

Your against the him taking out an enemy to the U.S?

8 months, 1 week ago
historybuff
replied to...

They did allow inspectors. It was in the treaty and they upheld it until they day america murdered their general.

Do Iranian's chant "death to america", yeah probably. Do american's cheer for murdering and killing Iranians? Absolutely they do. You are doing it right now. Why do you think you are any better?

America keeps increasing tensions, hurting them economically, murdering their citizens, and yet america continuously pretends like Iran is evil and America is just defending itself. America literally just murdered a man on a diplomatic mission to reduce tensions. That is not something that will bring peace. That will definitely bring more violence.

8 months, 2 weeks ago

Did you?

8 months, 2 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

what did obama have to do with benghazi and when did I not question it? did you even know me during the obama years? you are an idiot.

8 months, 2 weeks ago

Peace? Ha! What a laugh. Glad to know you trust a terrorist country that chants "Death to American" and doesn't allow US inspectors to make sure they abide by the treaty even when we are at "peace".

8 months, 2 weeks ago
historybuff
replied to...

Never answered? Are you serious? America has been targeting and attacking Iran from the minute the Shaw was overthrown. I mean just take the last few years. There were finally steps toward peace and trump unilaterally torpedoed it and put everyone back on a course toward violence.

8 months, 2 weeks ago

@Neimroff, how about "don't question the King" about Benghazi, Quadafi, IRS targeting Conservatives or having the FBI and DOJ spy on a political opponents campaign.

8 months, 2 weeks ago

@historybuff, Iran has been consistent at killing Americans since the 1970s and the US has never answered it's about time we did.

8 months, 2 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

what did i not question about obama? im having a hard time telling if your a troll or a sheep.

8 months, 2 weeks ago

Lots of people have killed americans. Trump's changes have reduced safety standards and kicked lots of people off their healthcare. Trump has probably killed more americans than that Iranian general. But that isn't really my point. If you are going to take an action, you should consider if it will have positive or negative effects.

Does killing him improve america's safety? Absolutely not. Iran is going to retaliate and americans are almost certainly going to die. The state department has ordered all americans to leave Iraq as soon as possible because they know it is coming.

Does it improve the odds of peace? Definitely not. Iran has to respond. That means killing americans. At that point America will feel they have to respond too. This only escalates an already deadly game. It makes the conflict worse.

Does it increase the odds of Iran suddenly becoming a democracy? Nope. This is going to unite all of Iran against america. In a country where the government doesn't have a great approval rating, soleimani was extremely popular. From their point of view, he was the man who defeated ISIS. Now that the US has murdered a national hero, they will unite behind the faction that advocates for violence against america, the conservative hardliners. This makes it considerably less likely that Iran will reform.

This murder/ terrorist attack america has carried out is going to have numerous negative effects. It is unlikely to have many positive ones. It was a stupid thing to do.

8 months, 2 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

what did i not question about obama?

8 months, 2 weeks ago

There is plenty of evidence that this general has been behind killing Americans and others before.

8 months, 2 weeks ago

Just like you didn't question your king, Barrack Hussain Obama?

8 months, 2 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

defending the death? your English is wrong.
anyway, what about the killing was he *attacking*? the part where it will lead to the deaths of more *americans* and that there may have been other ways to address the crimes that wont risk several more 9/11s?

im sorry but your a loyalist sheep. america was not built on "dont question the king". especially when you dont understand the simple english words others are saying. this is called a "delusion".

it is possible that taking him out was the right move. pacificism only enabled hitler in his invasion of austria. but so far trump has only said he has evidence, he has not shown that evidence. and trump is a known liar. there is not enough info, only a fool jumps to conclusions, but a sheep doesnt even bother to think.

8 months, 3 weeks ago

By defending the death of the top Iranian general who is responsible for many American and innocent deaths and who said on TV that many more would come instead of standing with the President supporting the demise of this evil man.

8 months, 3 weeks ago
Nemiroff
replied to...

what part of what he said supports iran?

8 months, 3 weeks ago

@historybuff, Iran is glad you are on their side (so is Russia, the pals of Iran).

8 months, 3 weeks ago

"If it leads to more death it isn't any death that could have been prevented. They were already planning to target other Americans."

you don't know that. You have no idea if they were planning attacks. The US government claims they were, but they have been known to lie (weapons of mass destruction). And even if they were planning some small attacks, you can be sure they are going to be carrying out some much bigger ones now. Alot more people are going to die.

"Right now the best strategy is to strike first."

Why? All that will do is escalate the violence and kill alot more people. The best strategy is to negotiate and try to reduce tensions and violence.

"He was in Iraq to supervise the attack on our embassy."

What evidence is there of that? No one have provided any evidence at all that he was involved. For all you know he had nothing to do with it and the military had him assassinated anyway.

8 months, 3 weeks ago

i agree that trump is a trigger happy toddler, but the thing about trigger happy people is that they always pull the trigger both when it is right and wrong. if there really is evidence of further upcoming attacks, this may have been the right move.

8 months, 3 weeks ago

He was in Iraq to supervise the attack on our embassy.

8 months, 3 weeks ago

If it leads to more death it isn't any death that could have been prevented. They were already planning to target other Americans. Right now the best strategy is to strike first.

8 months, 3 weeks ago

Add to that that Soleimani was a revered figure in much of the middle east. He was heavily connected to Shia militias, hezbollah etc. These groups are allies of Iran, but Iran can't necessarily control them. These groups will want revenge for the assassination of Soleimani. Even if Iran wanted to de-escalate the situation (which we don't know that they do), these groups could very well escalate with more attacks on american troops and diplomats. The US government will blame Iran and counter attack even if Iran couldn't prevent it.

This attack was extremely dangerous. It could spiral out of control extremely quickly and makes every american, but especially those in the middle east, much less safe.

8 months, 3 weeks ago

What lives? Even if he did the things the US government alleges, they were ordered by the Iranian government. Killing him won't stop someone else from carrying out those orders. In fact, Iran now has no choice but to retaliate and kill more people. The US hasn't saved any lives. They have committed a terrorist attack and an act of war that is guaranteed to lead to more violence and death.

8 months, 3 weeks ago

I am just glad we took him out. Think of the lives that were saved.

8 months, 3 weeks ago

The US government ordered the murder of a government official from another country. They did this by carrying out a bombing in a 3rd party country. That 3rd party (Iraq) had ordered the US to stop carrying out bombings in their country.

The US government essentially carried out a terrorist attack to murder someone they didn't like. Don't get this mixed up. This was an act of war. If Iran had done this to american US bombers would be pounding Iran right now.

This is horrible news for everyone who doesn't want to be dragged into yet another stupid war in the middle east.

8 months, 3 weeks ago
Discuss "Trump Takes Care of Business Iran top general dead" history history
Add an argument!
Use the arrow keys to navigate between statements. Press "A" to agree and press "D" to disagree.