Universal basic income is a good idea

February 8, 2020, 5:57 am

Agree17 Disagree17

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The debate "Universal basic income is a good idea" was started by Anonymous42 on February 8, 2020, 5:57 am. 17 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 17 people are on the disagree side. That might be enough to see the common perception. There is a tie in this debate, post your arguments, call some reinforcements and break this tie.

Nemiroff posted 1 argument, Anonymous42 posted 2 arguments to the agreers part.
Greetings posted 1 argument, jrardin12 posted 1 argument to the disagreers part.

Anonymous42, Nemiroff, Huzaifa, StrangeTime, rainbowsocked and 12 visitors agree.
Greetings, jrardin12 and 15 visitors disagree.

Anonymous42
replied to...

In response to the other disagree, if you believe people are being lazy and cheating the system like that already then surely nothing would change with the new system anyway then?

1 month, 4 weeks ago
Anonymous42
replied to...

I by no means suggest that people stop working, I personally believe that the universal basic income should be enough to keep people above the poverty line with a little to spare for savings or a rainy day. But I do not suggest that it would replace somebody's wage entirely and would be supplemented by a wage.

But I believe this money would allow people who are stuck in jobs that do not give them purpose (and I believe will be replaced by robots/AI soon (about 10-15 years)) in life (such as in retail etc) to retrain or re-enter education when they otherwise couldn't afford to.

I think that the idea of a job guarantee is a really interesting one, but you would need to find a way of creating many more jobs, with a purpose to the people doing them, than their are today. I think seeing as UBI opens the doors to people being able to retrain and follow their dreams, and therefore follow their purpose, it is a system that will make people happier in the long run. Or even give people the free time to go and do volunteering to support charities and their local area.

1 month, 4 weeks ago

universal basic income will be necessary post automation when most jobs are not done by people and machines dont need money.

how is capitalism supposed to survive in a world without income?

1 month, 4 weeks ago

Why should my hard earned money go to a person who doesn't work and is already rigging the system just to get food stamps, welfare and/or disability.

1 month, 4 weeks ago

I almost agreed but I had to retract it. It's not that a universal basic income is a bad idea per se... but...

Firstly, even in the world's richest countries, we're a long way off being able to pay a meaningful basic income to everyone. Some optimistic techies believe we're on the precipice of the AI era, which will be akin to the sweeping changes brought about by the industrial revolution. Once everything is automated by AI, a universal basic income would become feasible and perhaps sensible. However, the conversations I've had with folks in the industry leave me firmly convinced that we're overestimating the pace of change once again.

That's nothing new. The optimists of the 60s were convinced we'd have colonised the moon and mars by now. The medics and scientists of the 80s and 90s were certain that a cure for cancer would arrive by the turn of the century. Advocates of driverless cars were initially anticipating that fully automated vehicles would be on general sale right about now. They're not, and whilst their progress has been impressive, they still have all of the most difficult issues still to solve.

A universal income of any meaningful value is still quite some way off.

I don't think I'll have room to expand on my second point much, but it's essentially that humans need a purpose to be content. The world's most prominent happiness researchers (yes - that's a thing) view happiness as arising from a blend of both purpose and pleasure. I don't think free money is what humanity's soul really yearns for. People want purpose.

To that end, I think we'd be better off creating a 'job guarantee' - i.e. anyone who wants to work, no matter their skill set or disabilities, is guaranteed a job. Given there's ample evidence to suggest unemployment gives rise to mental health decline, I think this policy would pay for itself, both morally and financially, and is therefore considerably more desirable than a universal basic income. My understanding is that the legendary FDR almost implemented a job guarantee in his second Bill of Rights, but he died before he could see it through. Sad times... :-(

1 month, 4 weeks ago
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