The debate "Why do conservatives support those armies and organisations which were defeated by the US" was started by
March 19, 2018, 8:59 am.
3 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 6 people are on the disagree side.
There needs to be more votes to see what the common perception is.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
MajorGeneralX posted 5 arguments, Nemiroff posted 5 arguments to the agreers part.
Nemiroff posted 1 argument, historybuff posted 1 argument to the disagreers part.
MajorGeneralX and 2 visitors agree.
Corey0711, historybuff, brontoraptor and 3 visitors disagree.
America claimed it won the war because the British stopped abducting people off American ships which was the excuse they had used to declare war. but they completely failed to conquer Canada so I would argue America did not achieve their real goal.
the same fleet that is featured in the star spangled banner (bombing the fort) burned the white House and forced the president to run. they were however British troops not Canadian. but since Canada was still technically British at the time one could make the argument it is the same thing.
haha. I need to refresh a bit. I remember the whose and the name but it was overlooked here sadly. if it is as you say then maybe we could learn to take a more humbling stance. I will have to look over it again.
not alot. it was a completely pointless war that ended up accomplishing nothing. the war of 1812 in case anyone was unaware. but the president had to run and hide in the French embassy while the White house burned, which amuses me.
out of curiosity, how much does Canada teach about that?
I don't approve of such behavior but it is their right. much like with burning the flag. I don't like either. if I tried to stop it then I'm just as bad as the ones burning it or waving something disgraceful.
hmm... possibly but most eldery do seem predjudice to the younger. I'll see if I can find a site that might give some statistics to see.
Canada once faught against the US (kicked your a** too) and now we are close allies. it's a bit overly simplistic to say you can't support anyone who has ever faught against your country.
I am conservative but what we see is a different form of conservatism. People like the confederate flag wavers and Nazi flag wavers I find to be the most unpatriotic people in the US. They seem to think it is patriotic but I firmly believe that if you support any organization or country that fought against the US you should be hung for treason (obviously not actually hanged but should be treated like terrorist and turncoats.
I do comoletely disagree they are mostly young, I would think it would be across generations, but dominate amongst older people. not necessarily elderly, just not particularly young.
oh yeah. it is entirely flown for heritage and because people are asking them not to currently, I was just referring to the history behind it. I don't think it stood for anything else back in the civil war besides slavery tho. especially after reading the reason of secession from the states own words.
although I small minority does fly it currently for racist purposes still, the same people who fly the Nazi flag. but again, small minority.
slavery as sad, as it was, was how the south was structure so it does of course play a huge part. Im not intending to argue slavery was a small part. it was a big part of course. but there was more too it. I'm simply stating the flag stood for more. and that those that fly it do so out of rebllion and attention most often. and are usually young.
taking a quick look at a few states declaration of secession, no mention of taxes, more rights (to own slaves), less government (to keep them from owning slaves) and just repeated mentions of slavery.
one other reason (still slavery related) was the Louisiana purchase with southern states insisting any new states below the mason Dixon line accept slavery, which could have doubled the slaves in our nation.
the civil war was 100% about slavery and most likely would not have happened without it.
slavery yes. back then people were brainwashed in a way. it doesn't mean it's right but it does provide prospective. it meant more than that as well. it was also about lowering taxes, more rights, and government to stop getting into everything. slavery became the push to get it going. the war would of happened either way.
exactly why you are not a rebellious teenager. you are not trying to personally offend anyone for attention.
I would say no. as these things ussualy go it is more about the attention. much like children usually do.
But dont you think the CSA stood for really evil purposes of slavery? The US flag is a symbol of a United States. While the CSA flag is a symbol of slavery, civil war psycopaths and murderers.
Im not generalising all people.
I think , its much better to wave a US flag that represents American cause rather than flying a CS flag know for its bloody civil war.
the flag did have consistent use amongst some people in the south throughout, but the big pop culture adoption of it was promoted by dixiecrats in the 1950s.
they promoted it as a sense of cultural pride, reclaiming it like black people who reclaimed nigga or gay people who reclaimed queer. nothing wrong there, but the reason behind their culture campaign was to promote segregation and push back against the growing civil rights movement.
if the flag (and the statues) were meant to honor fallen traitors or percieved alternative reasons for their treasonous war, they would not have been promoted nearly a century later coincidentally at the same time as the people at the center of that conflict were demanding equal rights.
of course most people wave the flag as a source of cultural pride, however the reality of its history (original or during its revival) is not lost on the people it was meant to victimize. trying to be proud of the flag is like germans proudly waving the Nazi flag (for cultural pride) and wondering why the minorities are all getting nervous lol. except the confederate flag is worse seeing as the swastika did have an original innocent meaning (currpoted forever by nazis), and was never used as a battleflag for traitors.
if the Dixiecrats didn't intend to tie southern pride with racism, would the confederate flag even by popular now?
yes sorry must have missed this. though I sometimes swing democratic. especially business wise.
what is your take nemiroff?
on the Nazi flag. I personally have never seen this and I live in that general area though of course I can't have seen everything. if it is a big thing I highly doubtful it is of anyone of concern much like the Confederate flag.
on the Confederate flag. it's mostly for rebellion. and gun rights. there idiots and certainly don't show the whole truth but it is there right.and most of the people you are pointing out are teenagers or young adults. both groups whose reputation isn't about doing the normal thing.
You guys are out of luck with me, I'm so neutral you may call me Switzerland, but for the sake of arguing I'll be a conservative if you want me to be....
yeah. based on voting it seems conservatives are a majority, but mostly silent. The only active liberals here are me and history buff.
I am waiting for a conservative to defend it. Btw, are they any conservatives here?
I find this hillarious as well, and although I do have an explanation, I would like to see a conservative try to defend this first
Since I live miles and miles away south of Texas, I would like to know WHY and WHY the so called rednecks or 'conservatives ' a.k.a. preservatives( thats what i call them) fly the Confederate flag so high ? I have even seen some flying Nazi flags. Wth is wrong with these people? Dont they love their actual nation?
I would like to know from a liberal or a conservative or anything that sounds human