The debate "Why the hell is it snowing in the middle of spring It must be global warming guys" was started by
March 23, 2016, 1:48 pm.
17 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 22 people are on the disagree side.
That might be enough to see the common perception.
It looks like most people are against to this statement.
Alex posted 8 arguments, ProudAmerican888 posted 3 arguments, Cannon2cool posted 1 argument to the agreers part.
Maximus posted 30 arguments, Sosocratese posted 5 arguments, bennie posted 3 arguments to the disagreers part.
ProudAmerican888, Alex, Elisabeth111, Cannon2cool, sierra1462, cancer_wins, mike5193 and 10 visitors agree.
RyanWakefield, Royalkid, Pugsly, Maximus, project_mayhem, Sosocratese, Upbeatethan, YMayy, Sanjana, LeviRay, bennie, JanavanRooyen and 10 visitors disagree.
If you want a complete explanation of what they agree on and what they don't, I will provide some links.
Basically, an overwhelming number of researchers and studies agree that human activity is driving climate change. While there are always dissenting opinions, there are those who believe the Earth is flat. That doesn't lend credibility to the idea.
they agree that climate change is happening and that it is being fueled by human activity. these are the facts that virtually no one in the scientific community disputes.
what do the 98% agree on? that the climate is changing? that it is man made and able to be man-stopped? or something in between?
I have. and it's only like 98% of all scientists. so saying the vast, overwhelming majority of scientists agree is an accurate statement.
wrong not all scientists, like I said do your research.
since the entire scientific community agrees on the topic, I don't see how any amount of research could cause us to disagree with all scientists.
yeah, do your research, watch the news, go online.
Care to back that up with something other than your opinion? Since the scientific community is nearly unanimous in their acceptance of climate change and the fact that humans are causing it you may have some trouble.
it's because of the shifting of the pole it's causing weather change. the seasons won't be the same in a few years.
I know what global warming is. It's a scam, nothing but a myth.
if you knew what global warming was, you would understand
Alex, if you want to see that i was tried from 4 angles at once and disrepected, i'll oblige that. If not, you have nothing for me.
"I assure you we can have a full on debate anytime and i will look forward to it." -maximus, you said this. why not do what you said and have a full debate with someone? basically everyone has a different view then you, so pick someone to debate against.
i dont think so he even went to school. i think he lives in LA and he might be a gang member.
Maximus, it might help you if you don't disagree with everyone before you read their post. maybe you could try to have a logical debate? or at least keep the insults and name calling low.
my guess about you is you have very few friends, don't do well in school, don't like your family, and generally hate people. you think your the only person that is right. that mindset won't get you anywhere in a debate, which you refuse to do.
don't fees the troll. he isn't even pretending to debate any more. you can't cure stupid.
exposure is wonderful. thank you soso.
What a coincidence; that's exactly what I said to your mom last night!!!! How titillating
Listen, i will serve you up a steady destruction anytime, with enjoyment. You sir, are the easiest part of my day.
is this your real response? BWAHAHAHA. HEY, you tried, right?
where did little miss Maxipad kick the hell out of anyone? You had bad arguments, got called out for having bad arguments, resorted to insulting people, got offended when others responded in kind.... not a good showing buddy....
you know how you find out that you kicked the hell outta someone? When they start talking trash after you leave!
i thought maximus was male. is he a female?
haha, I understand. Little Mrs. Maxipad isn't even a good troll though.....the least she could do is be funny....
I know, but I have trouble ignoring stupidity. I don't tolerate it well either in person or digitally.
feeding the trolls is strictly prohibited as it may result in stupid comments, non-fact based shouting, and unoriginal insults.
If you are confused, take some time and reread your posts and reflect on why your stream of insults and belittling comments could constitute hateful language.
president, when you say hate speech.. are you referring to calling me a fool several times, or are you a victim? im confused
Where is your researched response? You are contradicting the entire scientific community but have yet to give any solid support for why.
you just give hate speeches. you dont argue. giving arguments is not same as giving hate speeches.
well one thing for sure, you just pulled the BIGGEST oximoron ever, history buff... you said you get the feeling nobody can tell me anything.. and you are the one flagging. Do you see the hypocrasy or no? You don't like difference of opinion, don't care to consider being wrong and have no realx researched response, and yet i am the bad one?
i agree with you guys
I've been flagging them this whole time. it's the main reason I kept going. he has like 50 ban worthy comments by this point.
I'm getting the feeling he's just trolling....I'm just flagging his posts at this point. I don't have any more interest in debating with someone who is either too intellectually disabled to figure out how to debate or is simply wasting our time. I would suggest you guys do the same.
We have provided evidence, none of which you have in any way addressed. We have responded to your "proof" and you have descended to rhetorical insults instead of continuing your arguments. This means either you have no further arguments that are valid or you know you are wrong and are trying to frustrate us into giving up. If it is the latter you are doomed to failure as you are not a particularly effective troll. If it is the former you have already lost the debate and are simply refusing to admit defeat gracefully.
the entire scientific community agrees with what I am telling you. if you want I can provide you with hundreds of peer reviewed studies, not that you would read them. you are the one arguing against was is the widely held belief of the scientific world. the onus is on you to prove that your opinion is correct.
History buff, i have given you info which you try to discredit(as i laugh). You do nothing but sit there and discredit with no true action. Do you feel its my job to prove something? Where the hell are your proofs? You have nothing, but a garbage opinion that shows how useless one can become.
hey buff i think he is winning in getting more disagrees.
I really can't understand why you think you are winning? you are providing little to no evidence. virtually no one here agrees with you. in what sense are you winning at anything?
hey dave, how about your buddy president.. how's his wording grab ya, grammar police?
yeah i too find the sentence demeaning.
You know that the number is spelled "four" right?
Beyond terrible spelling and grammar, you have succeeded in something I didn't think I would ever see. You have united almost everyone on the app. I very rarely agree with some of the people here because we are ideologically opposed in most respects, but we all seem to recognize that you have no idea what you are talking about.
that sentence didn't make any sense, much like the rest of your opinions.
and dont feel bad for me either. my father is an engineer he earns well. i too like pscychdave have a wonderful family. i even have a villa . i earn good grades. i am happy too. we all worry about you maximus. we think you are a foolish guy who needs to learn facts. we feel bad for you. ha ha.
You have yet to "own" anyone on the app and your deteriorating vocabulary and arguing style certainly isn't helping your cause. The fact that the scientific community as a whole disagrees with you has more weight than your opinion.
You claim HAARP was used to make favourable rainstorms in Vietnam. Could you explain either how that works or point me to some kind of explanation from someone who is knowledgeable?
You claim I don't understand global politics, but are basing this on what?
You aren't defending your position, you are making claims and then running on to the next one without actually making a point. You cannot possibly expect anyone to take you seriously when you don't provide anything but your own juvenile rants to support your opinions.
ok loser buddy better you go to sleep
Don't feel bad for me. I am employed, I have an amazing family and am happy. I debate here because I enjoy debating, even if it is against insulting conspiracy nuts.
you should, you clearly don't have 2 brain cells to rub together.
Maximus, you seem confused about how this app works so let me explain something. President is someone whose vote counts. The entire bases of the app is to debate and vote on topics. By losing the debate in his opinion, he is more likely to vote against you. If you don't understand still let me know and I can break it down further but hopefully this clears up your confusion.
i see my face not fools. believe it or not you are a child we are grownups.
historybuff didnt lost the debate it is you who lost it fool
unfortunately it gets used alot because when people, such as yourself, run out of actual evidence they simply resort to childish attacks to distract from their complete lack of a meaningful argument.
ha ha . good reply to maximus.
Id that what you take away from it? What happens when you find out you are an idiot for this? Ad hominem is a frequent term used by you. Frankly, it's worn out and i think you use it as a filler.
So what you're saying is you can't prove your point and have thus resorted to ad hominem arguments alone.... Good job. You have graduated to a kindergarden debate level.
One of these days you'll learn to source your claims and provide evidence to support them. At that point we can have a real argument. Until then, the kids table is that way- - - - >
have a seat and let the grown ups talk.
scratchees, i emplore you to stop being lazy and a legend in your own mind and research stuff.
History buff, I mean, i'm speechless. You know i scorch you for fun.
you haven't because its a myth and a hoax and you bought into it and for that, i feel bad for you. Run along.
You have no evidence for any of your claims and yet you call me and idiot.... I have supported my claims with actual data. The reason I use skepticalscience as a source is because they release their sources so you can actually fact check them. They even have open discussions on each article so you can see opposing views.... If you want me to stop calling you out for the tin foil hat wearing conspiracy nut you seem to be, all you have to do is provide actual evidence. Show me your sources for the information you're spouting.
If you can't substantiate your claims you're points have no more merit than the guy on bus screaming about the aliens that probed him last night.... So until you can actually support your nonsense, you're the crazy guys on the bus....
And for everyone else, it's best to ignore the crazy guy on the bus. He'll eventually get off to yell at a statue in the park.....
you have yet to even try to prove the things you say. all you keep saying is your unsupported, wild opinions. provide some evidence or continue to be ridiculed as a rediculous conspiracy nut.
and for the record, your decision to be a willful idiot has no bearing on me whatsoever.
and if you would ever take you head from your trendy, spaced out anus and research without blindly following the masses as you are.. maybe you will understand something other than brainwash.
Can global warming and overpopulatuon not coexist or better yet, can overpopulatuon create global warming?
i don't THINK $hit, I KNOW!
lookx don't disrespect me. you know nothing and yet you criticize me? Study up, the joke is not on me, cretin.
wow... you really are a crack pot aren't you? you really believe that there is an evil cabal controlling the weather? that is just rediculous.
at any rate, the earth is constant in renewing everything and repeating cycles. What i find sad are little trendies that think they are in the scientific know(like sosocratese)about all this BS, yet they are totally in the clouds about the kings of the planet that made this concept and made millions from it such as Al "i'm no scientist but invented the internet and global warming" Gore. It's unfortunate that you don't see the real picture that elites have come to the conclusion that the world has too many people and we are breathing their air, eating their food, drinking their water and using their resources.
when you can modify weather and blame gobal warming or climate change.. WHO REALLY WEARS THE TIMFOIL HAT?!?!
sosocratese, since we got personal with the tinfoil hat thing... allow me to call you the idiot that you in fact are. HAARP was used during Vietnam to cause rainstorms favorable to allied forces advancement in the Ho Chi Minh Trail. Now you got a fight, I will show you tin foil hat ya nobody.
before i read on DAVE, please understand that you don't even have real working knowledge of what is going on from a geopolitical standpoint. So i would highly suggest you crawl before you attempt to walk.
We can measure the total output of CO2 caused by humans (about 29 gigatons, which is actually a conservative number) . We can measure the total amount of CO2 on our natural cycle (about 720-750 gigatons). We can measure the total amount of CO2 our planet can recycle (about 750 gigatons or so) and when we do all that we come to a number about 40% of human carbon emissions being excluded from the natural CO2 cycle and thus being left as excess in the atmosphere. CO2 being a greenhouse gas, and CO2 levels being on the rise at a rate directly proportional to that of the excess co2 in our natural co2 cycle we can say to a fairly high degree of certainty that human activity is overloading our natural co2 cycle and therefore is the primary reason for the co2 increase.
Another way to look at this data is that if there were NO human production of CO2, the natural co2 cycle would be able to recycle 100% of the co2 in the natural systems thus not allowing the co2 to build up in the atmosphere and causing it's greenhouse effects...so human by not burning fossil fuels, CO2 levels could actually be returned to stable levels.
So, if the data tells us that our contribution to the natural co2 cycle is such that it overwhelms the system and that eliminating activities which release co2 would return us to state of equilibrium, how can you still argue that human co2 production is not a key driver of climate change?
Here is my challenge to you Alex.
Since you agree that climate change is happening, and I'm assuming you're OK with the fact that it's largely due to greenhouse gasses accumulating in the atmosphere (if you're not, I have a different challenge for you), you must show me the following in order to challenge the concept of human driven climate change:
Which other source(s) of CO2 has increased in such a way as to overwhelm the natural co2 cycle other than human activity?
That is pretty much why I asked what theory he subscribes to with regards to HAARP. If it is anything like most of the ones I have heard, it is pretty easy to dismiss.
That said, I have talked with a few people who make reasonably logical, if flawed, arguments for HAARP damaging the environment. The one that sticks with me is that you can alter some things intentionally that you would not be able to so easily with side effects if other actions. You cannot accidentally control my brain by passing large currents through hydro lines, but minuscule currents passed through electrodes in my brain certainly can. If HAARP was designed to be that slight nudge to alter the balance of the climate, it might not require as much to cause a substantial effect.
Like I said, still flawed but at least it was thought of logically and his companion has stuck with me for a long time, so it was effective in arguing his position as well.
here is what the facts are:
the climate is changing as it always is.
the ice caps shrink and grow over time, even before humans.
there is no proof humans contribute largely to CO2 climate warming. the stuff Sosocratees said proves nothing about actual temp of the planet being affected by humans.
the laws made to lower planet temp, and change the climate don't have any affect besides raising bills and putting people out of work. we can't change the weather! we can blow up cities, but we can't change the climate enough to have any affect.
The second he said HAARP, you can pretty much ignore anything that comes after that since we have entered full on "tin foil hat" logic.... There is no arguing with nonsense like this. When someone believes we can alter the weather through a weapon but not through pollution; there is a certain disconnect with reality that can't be bridged by logic or evidence.... All you can do is ignore and ridicule such believes for the nonsense they are.
There are many differences between the two nations, which should be evident to anyone. Your continued belief that the only difference is their views on the climate shows that either you are being disingenuous or you are hopelessly naive about economics.
The earth has been around a long time, and the climate has changed greatly in that time. The difference is that we can measure what is happening, and the evidence shows conclusively that human activities are contributing. To deny that you must disprove all environmental scientists findings for decades. An undertaking I suspect you are ill equipped or trained to undertake.
As to the Atlantic ice levels being higher than on the last 40 years, could you provide some research showing that and how it disproves climate change? While you are investigating, have a look at this Wikipedia article. It should give you a starting point to branch off from.
Lastly, if you think scientists should hike to their conferences, perhaps you could demonstrate that it is physically possible. Strap some camping equipment to your back and hike into the ocean. Not all scientists are in the same city, nation or continent, so manual methods of travel are not possible. Either you are suggesting that they are honour bound to never meet and share research, or you must admit that their research is better served by working together. Add to that the necessity of researching the effects of climate change locally, which means traveling to the area being studied. It would take a long time to hike from the Arctic to the Antarctic, so unless you believe they can study these regions without ever visiting them, again you must admit that they must travel by plane. Finally, I have yet to see a researcher fly a private jet to get to a conference. Politicians do it, as do businessmen, but researchers don't tend to have the money to afford their own aircraft. Where did you get this idea that they were jetting around the world on private planes?
Leave your car on in the garage with the doors and windows sealed. You'll see basic biology take hold when you stay in there for extended amounts of time.
do your part in not passing gas and paying your carbon tax while they fly their jets around and collect your gullable money.
The has been around since before man. It has withstood the test of time. The Atlantic ice is higher now than it was in the last 40 years. So what pre tell are you protecting, other than. fable?
why can I breath if burning fossil fuels give off CO2? We have one earth why not protect it?
and as i said, look at the ISLAND OF HAITI AND DOMINICAN REPUBLIC. Domincan republic is lush and green using fossil fuels.. haiti is a dirt mound that abides to climate change rules.
Dave, if you can tell me the elites hike to their climate meetings instead of taking jets with certainty, because they believe so highly in "the cause".. i will be happy to proceed.
Could you explain what exactly you think HAARP is and what it does? There are so many conspiracy theories I'm not sure which you subscribe to.
Could either of you back up your claim that it is a hoax with any kind of evidence?
Exactly right, Maximus. See, liberals don't understand that the government is using global warming as propaganda to promote carbon taxes, and ultimately more control over the public. Global warming is a hilarious failure hoax. Maybe you should stop being so susceptible to other peoples fairy tales and think for yourself, global warming is a scam.
you are(and i say this with all due respect) among the most gullible on the planet. They have used HAARP and bombed the ionishpere several times. But people such as your mainstream news carry wealth of information self has fully consumed and regurgitated this disinfo to others to hope such unimformed speak travels to others. That alone is more sad than being braindead.
And I'll take the bait on your links. if you just look at the header you can tell its a pro-hoax article. You can find anything online. Just as i can throw up links to how people that believe in it have no clue what they are talking about.
stop, you are braindead and to go a bit further I would even venture to say you have a bit of Stockholm Syndrome. Have a look at the Island shared by Haiti and the Dominican Republic. That will show you all that you need to know about this braindead follower's hoax. haiti has followed US ideals and their country is a dirt pile. The dominican Republic uses fossil fuels and best described the country looks like one side (dominican Rep.) looks like a chiapet in full bloom while the other looks like nothing but soil.
Oh my... So much ignorance in one thread.
I'm gonna address a couple of recurring themes throughout this thread.
The global warming to climate change switch.
This is a non sequitur to start with. Renaming something has absolutely no bearing on whether or not some phenomena is true or not. The reason that people seem to think this is relevant is that it is somehow meant to disguise a conspiracy. Not one of you can produce a single shred of evidence that there is a conspiracy, that there is a cover up, that there is any nefarious action going on. You need to justify claims as bold as this. If you can't at least ground your reason through evidence then it should really be considered a "tin foil hat" kinda claim.
There is also a reason why global warming was changed to climate change. Climate change is the result of global warming. It more accurately describes the phenomena as a whole. Global warming is simply the trend in global temperatures. While climate change is the resulting changes to our climate.
On to the human factor.
Human beings contribute about 29 gigatons of CO2 into nature's 750 gigaton natural co2 cycle. Humans therefore overload our planet's natural ability to recycle that co2. About 40% of the co2 emitted by humans is not recycled and remains in the system. We have been able to measure these emissions with a high degree of accuracy. Now, while these numbers aren't a huge percentage of the total, you may be deceived into thinking that it's impossible for humans to actually contribute. However, you have to realize that it's a log scale not a linear scale and that small percentages add up.
If you think that we are incapable of causing irreversible harm to the planet, you are out of touch with reality. We have poisoned much of our own water supply to this day. Have decimated the oceans of fish (fish crisis). We have to ability to whipe out almost all life on earth with our nuclear arsenal. We can deforest entire land masses. We can drain entire swamp lands. I think you're failing to give our destructive capabilities enough credit....
On the snowing in march nonsense. That is perfectly normal in the northern hemisphere. You don't understand this issue.
they changed the name because idiots would constantly use the name to try to undermine unquestionable science. temperature rises melt ice caps and dump large amounts of cold, fresh water into the ocean. this can cause disturbances that can make it things colder in certain regions. isolated pockets of cold do not change an overwhelming global trend.
you are demanding an extremely simple pattern from and extremely complicated system. global weather patterns are not something that are not easily understood. changing parts of it can have unpredictable effects on other parts of it.
hmm how could snowing relate to global warming?
Dave how do you justify the laws that have very little impact on the temp, but do raise electricity prices and put people out of work.
Exactly. Climate change use to be global warming until liberals realized it doesn't exist, so they hurried and changed it to climate change. If climate change even exists, we have no impact on it. Humans like to think we are so damaging and influential to the earth. Truth is, earth has its own cycles and humans don't run everything.
I'm not quite sure where this "scientific proof" jargon is coming from. People, they changed the title from "Global warming" to "Climate Change" so it would seem more acceptable as a scam. the climate changes 4 seasons out of the year. The Polar ice levels have been mercurial throughout time going up and down, etc... There is no sign of "warming" in fact, there is more chance of an ice age, which is laughable when they try to find a way to tie that in as the outcome and thus the title change so abruptly. HEY, What about when they have there little international meetings on global change, err.. climate warming.. oops.. climate change i mean. They get in their PRIVATE JETS and fly to those meetings from all over the world. Are they exempt?!? OH, who would argue with an international climate tax they are trying to push on everyone in the world?!?!? Sounds good right? Your burping and flatulence is killing the earth, never mind the rule makers and their jets, just run along.
Your argument is again in opposition to all scientific evidence and the entirety of the scientific community, and thus can safely be disregarded as being wrong.
As to your argument about the loss of jobs, that is true. Fossil fuel sectors have lost jobs as demand decreased. This is similar to when the coal industry in England decreased over the environmental impact of burning coal. It is also similar to the lost jobs in the automotive industry as automation took their place. The work force changes. At least in this situation it is not that jobs are actually vanishing so much as transitioning to alternative energy jobs. If you don't want the work force to change, unfortunately you are out of luck because as society and technology change it will always happen.
.00000001 degrees man made, sure.
what is a fact is the laws by Obama increase energy costs, putt coal workers out of work while decreasing temp less then .00001
There is no debate in scientific circles about whether it is man made. What is in doubt is if there is any evidence that will convince those like yourself to abandon your intentional, irrational refusal to admit that people are harming the earth.
of course the climate is changing. what is uncertain is if it is man- made or not. what is certain is the stuff I said about the laws that raise electricity prices.
Alex, your lack of understanding of climate change and the science behind it has been shown in previous debates. You are putting your opinion against that of nearly all scientists and saying you are the more knowledgeable source.
the average global temperature has risen by 0.8 degrees Celsius in the last century, and over 0.4 degrees in the last twenty five years. this may not seem like a lot, but over a long period of time ice will start to melt, sea levels will rise, and many food chains will be interrupted. you were right when you said the climate has always been changing, but we are only accelerating the process with per carbon emissions.
liberals took note of this then changed the term to "climate change". it's sad cause the climate is always changing, and their making laws that lower the planet temp by less then .00001 degrees. on the other hand these acts do raise electricity costs, and put thousands of coal workers our of work.