The debate "Workers rights are subjective and therefore dont exist." was started by
February 8, 2018, 7:44 pm.
13 people are on the agree side of this discussion, while 12 people are on the disagree side.
People are starting to choose their side.
It looks like most of the people in this community are on the agreeing side of this statement.
lachlan posted 4 arguments to the agreers part.
Nemiroff posted 5 arguments to the disagreers part.
lachlan, chasediedrich1, NPW, Ashes and 9 visitors agree.
Nemiroff, batmanfan777, chemikilsm0ke and 9 visitors disagree.
Something subjective doesn't mean that it's inexistent.
I was hoping you would show me how your system functions on the macro level. What would happen to wages, to spending, to workplace conditions, to product quality, to predatory practices like payday loans.
yes, I work, and I've had jobs where the boss listens, and many jobs where the boss doesn't. to imagine that your anecdotal situation is universal is very naive. in particular kitchens, retail, and fast food are notorious for being abusive.
3rd world economies have free markets because they often cannot enforce any regulations. of course the 3rd world assessment is not universal, but what is universal is that the rest of the first world is far more regulated then the US, so if they do want a free market experience, the 3rd world is the only place to go. and even within the 3rd world, from China to Bangladesh, as these swear shop economies grow wealthier, they start implementing worker protections.
show me 1 successful laissez faire economy....
And enough with the sophistry from socialists claiming that because we must acquire door and shelter to live, we are therefore slaves because we have to work and bear responsobility. Stop comparing the need to survive on your own to actual slavery with no choice to better your situation. The mindset that because they have no choice but to work hard (for now), then we might as well have the government enforce no choice for anyone! That is not a trade off to cut out hardship, that is jist a hardship that cuts out responsibility and freedom.
Yeah actually it works great. I don't know if you work or not but every employer I had since I was 15, I could call on the phone at any given time to talk. Also every employer will sit down and go through all the terms and such when you are hired. You've worked before right?
If you disagree with the terms involved with your employment, you negotiate or don't work there. Using the state to force the employer to hire you on terms to which they don't agree is not an option.
I'm not sure why you think 3rd world countries have free econonies. They don't. If they are still developing, then allowing workers to work for $3 a day is better than forcing them to do nothing for $0 a day!
Lachlan. please, describe your economy.
0 government enforcement. how do you believe the market would look?
talk to the Boss! so obvious! so easy! why haven't any of these people figured it out... maybe because it doesn't work. when they go see the boss, the answer is most often "come in, or don't come in ever again."
when you need food and shelter now, you don't have choice but to agree. no choice = slave. or do you suggest they hold out for better work while homeless with their family? -.-
well that goes for the store owner who won't sell. your not a slave. you can quit.
and if you really want to pay people whatever you want. go open your shop in some 3rd world country where I'm sure he'll be able to charge similar prices. because the commerce of the rest of the free world is far more regulated then we currently are.
Oppression is when your natural rights are oppressed.
1. You don't have the right to another persons money, sorry. If you are selling another ypur labor you don't have the right to force him to pay a wage to which he desen't agree.
2. Grow up and plan ahead with your employer, like everyone learns with their forst job. Request days off in the future, talk to your employer about school etc. Be mature. If you agree to work fridays and don't have the responsibility to request off guess what happens?
Or you get to quit.
Freedom of association exists and ylthe agreement is mutual.
the fact that a right follows an either/or is not subjective, but the validity of that right is subjective. all rights.
someone's right to keep another in instability, changing their schedule at will, preventing them from seeking an education or a second job, potentially preventing them from adequately feeding their family, is not a worthy right.
even if it limits someone's freedom, it's just the freedom to oppress.
It either expends the freedom of others or dosen't, that's a fact not subjective.
Free speech is a human right because it can be used without infringing on the freedom of others.
Workers rights force individuals into contracts to which they don't agree.
all rights are subjective, and are a very recent phenomena.
worker rights are human rights.